Wooden exterior sign recomendations.

[eandico]

Today I had a request for a large wooden sign.

I was thinking redwood or cedar. She wants to be able to see the wood and I want to coat it with something that will last a long time.

Any suggestions??

It will be 120in x48in oval good thing I got a 5X10!![fantastic]
(wheres my dust boot luke?);)

Thanks for any input,
Nick

[Joey Jarrard]

Nick I will ask my wife's brother abou the finish. He did all our finish work when I was at the Millworks shop. We did a few golf resorts and has a lot of outdoor signs and doors. I know we used spar varnish a god bit but there may be a better solution.

The boot is with frank and Paul so you will have it soon.

[james mcgrew]

so paul and frank have the boot?

http://www.perfectplank.com/cedar_sign_blanks_signs.html

http://allwoodsignblanks.com/

[Joey Jarrard]

Some times I would like to give them the boot in the ;moon

[eandico]

Paul and Frank may have the boot but Jim has every web link to everything under the sun!!!![lol][fantastic]

Thanks Joey let me know what he says I have used spar varnish before but was wondering if there is something better.

[eandico]

Thanks for the links Jim I didnt even know that there were places that made those. I was just going to glue it up my self.......

[james mcgrew]

these are excellent quality come sanded and ready!!

[darde]

Sikkens is one of the best. Use 1 coat of cetol 1 & 2 coats of cetol 23. It does not peel and just needs the cetol 23 to recoat later. The natural is what I use & it is amber and does darken the wood. You can not paint the sign and sand it off and put this over as a top coat. It will cover the letter paint and be cloudy.

[eandico]

Darde,
What do you do when you need to paint your letters then??

Thanks,
Nick

[darde]

I do them by hand and it is time consuming. I had one guy that was painting some of the signs I cut for them himself come in and ask me how I got them so neet, when he seen one I had painted for them. I told him "talent". I suppose it would work to do it with a mask also but I have used them very little. One of the last signs I made was 27" high and 16' long with routing on both sides. It was a 5 1/8" thick piece of glulam , D. fir and my son and I had a heck of a time handling it with out an overhead hoist. I work for a glulam manufacturer so I use d. fir for a lot of my signs.

[T.R.MacMunn]

I've been away so I just saw this thread. This is the sort of thing I do on a daily basis.
You already have the blank issues solved (I think) so this is mostly concerning the choice of finish.
Frankly, as much as I love wood & natural finishes, I no longer use them on exterior signs. You may have noticed that log homes look great for about 3 years then they get to looking really bad, really quickly after that. The natural finishes just can't give the UV protection that solid finishes give.

When I need a natural woodgrain finish, I paint it on. You can buy one of those faux grainers at most paint stores. You decide the colours you want, put the base coat on & then mix your top colour with a retarder to slow the drying process. I'm talking 100% acrylics here ... oil based enamels will not last like the acrylics will although 10 years ago that was a different story.
Practice on a piece of scrap to get your technique.

I don't want to give a "plug" for any one manufacturer, but my preferences are BM FreshStart primer (2 coats) & then I use Porter AcriShield for the rest. Any 100% acrylic that's not dirt cheap will do fine ...... I just like Porter for the way it comes off a lettering quill. In fact, Porter is not even available in Canada so I go to a fair bit of trouble to get it.

For a natural cedar finish, I put down 2 coats of a "Brick" red & then mix some dark brown into it for the grain coat. You won't get all the grain coat off where you want the background colour to show through........ there'll be a bit of a glaze left that will darken it a bit.

I give a very good warranty on my signs & about 80% of my refinishing costs were with natural finishes. The acrylics allow moisture to move both ways through the finish so peeling (usually caused by trapped moisture) is almost never an issue. Since I switched to this method, signs are now coming in for their first refinishing after about 9 years instead of the 3.5 years when I was using Sikkens Cetol.
I use Porter acrylics for everything now, except I'm not fond of their reds. Para (a Canadian company) mixes into a red base that is far superior, but they don't have a fungicide that works so I don't use them for any other colours.

If anyone is interested, I'll take a series of photos & post a "how-to". I have one in the works right now. It's a bit of a learning curve but you'll have a much happier customer 5 years from now.

Rodger
www.trmacsigns.com

[eandico]

Thank you Rodger for your input and info!!

The client asked for a wood sign specifically and I sent her back a little info no pricing and a rendering and have not heard from her.......

OH well!!

But I'm interested in your tecnique if you are willing to share!!

Thanks,
Nick

[T.R.MacMunn]

Just give me a few days ....... busier than a one-armed banjo picker with the crotch crickets:D

I should add ..... I used a variety of clears for years. It's true that Cetol 23 can just be added as a restoration coat, but generally people wait too long & it still looks crappy. Getting it off to start over is less fun than a root canal ....
In a sandblasted area, you don't have a lot of options with the rough surface.

I tried several waterbased clears as well. A little more user friendly than Cetol, but didn't last any better.

A sign buddy in Saskatchewan swears by (not at) Nazdar ..... I think it's for the printing industry. It takes about 5 coats, starting with it thinned about 50% & each successive coat thinned a little lessuntil the last at full strength. He says he's had his best luck with that product.
I haven't tried it yet, although I may soon.

[Chris Fruge]

As for painting... i use One Shot Enamel. Awesome.... can be messy though.

[T.R.MacMunn]

Although one-shot flows nicely off a quill, if you are looking for any sort of longevity, it's went from best to worst in the last 10 years.
It used it a lot until 2005 ........ by then the removal of the lead & the other EPA induced reformulations had its lifespan down to about a year on some colours. I now only use it behind gold leaf.
Although they don't flow out as nicely, your customer will be happier MUCH longer if you use 100% acrylics.
I keep a log of every dimensional sign that leaves here & what's on it. For warranty, I do the first refurbishing free of charge irregardless of time ..... they just have to get it to me. As you may guess, I have a pretty good handle on how long stuff lasts. Right now I'm refinishing signs I did in 2001.
3 or 4 years ago I did the ones that were done in 2005 with One-shot.

[darde]

I work for a glulam manufacturer and this is a problem we have to deal with all the time. On wood The Cetol seems to perform the best. We did use a product called Supernatural By Napier. It was a catalyzed finish and it was OK but it was bought out by another company and we could not buy it any more. More and more stuff is going FSC and Leeds which only allows you to use low VOC finishes so the water base finishes are starting to get better. The problems with the clear is not the finish breaking down but the UV rays breaking down the wood fibres below the finish and then the finish can fail. That is why a solid stain or paint will always out perform a clear. I still like the look of the wood but have to agree that it is getting harder to use the clears knowing how the sign will likely look in 5 years.

[T.R.MacMunn]

Here's a question.......has anyone here tried Cetol Marine Gloss?
I may have a transom to letter on an old mahogany boat. The owner wants gold leaf. Normally, you don't clear over the gold but on a boat or vehicle you need to. I've been told by 3 other sign guys that this is the best at the present time.
Perhaps it will give decent longevity on a sign:confused: