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Old 08-20-2018, 08:30 AM
DVE2000 DVE2000 is offline
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Hi Camheads,

I've been a hobby woodworker for 22 years. I've been working with a Shaper Origin for most of this year, and it turned out that it was my CNC gateway drug!

Last week I put down the deposit on a Stinger II SR-44 with with Recoil Lathe (I've been interested in getting into ornamental turning for at least 17 years...), performance premium package, and 1.7kW spindle. I've never actually seen a CAMaster in person.

I'm not new to forums and understand about getting off my butt and searching posts (not threads) and I've done that, but sometimes the questions aren't framed exactly the way I want them to be framed.

I'd appreciate some answers from "those who know". :)

I plan to work mostly with hardwood, and chances are that if I do any plywood, it'll be with Baltic Birch, so I'll be using my tracksaw first anyway. I'm wondering if I should just shell out the additional $150 for the 2" gantry lift? The bit's moment is increased when the gantry is further away from the pivot point on the carriage, so I'm wondering if any play is introduced with the lift option? Any chattering added?

Thanks to Origin, I've become pretty decent with Fusion 360. I ended up modifying Casey Roger's Dogbone add-in on Github. He's let me take it over and there should be some cool additions to it coming up at some time. I've watched video and played a lot, and I think I can generate tool paths pretty easily with it. I'm going to get G-Wizard calculator and that will allow me to set feeds and speeds. I'm fairly convinced that Fusion can't be used to create anything for the recoil lathe. It only wants to generate tradition lathe turning. Does anyone know differently?

I'd tried to use the sheet metal portion to flatten a leg to see if I could generate code and then replace X movements with A movements, but I wasn't able to flatten it. Never mind getting to the part to modify the G-code. It's not a total train smash, because I am learning VCarve Pro, and doing turning on that doesn't seem be that hard.

I saw the cool thread on adding the ability to use G-code to start and stop a dust collector: http://www.camheads.org/showthread.php?t=2193. I have a 3.5HP Pennstate Industries cyclone (they don't make them any more) and I opened one of my remotes. It would be easy to add wires to one to short out either the "on" button or the "off" button with reed relays. So I'd need two 5V outputs from the controller board, instead of one, as the thread discusses. What channels should I use? Could I get CAMaster to add these for me and I can just connect 4 wires? (I can ask tech support about that later today, I guess.)

Best,
Gary
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2018 Stinger II SR-44, 1.7kW Spindle, Performance Premium, Recoil, Gantry Lift, Cyclone
Fusion 360
Aspire

Last edited by DVE2000; 08-20-2018 at 09:38 AM.
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  #2  
Old 08-20-2018, 09:10 AM
TinKnocker TinKnocker is offline
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So I don't have a recoil, so I can't talk to whether the lift is a good upgrade. I do know quite a bit about sheet metal work though.

We have two ways of designing sheet metal parts. We can model it as a solid and then convert it to sheet metal which is more difficult, because the material has to maintain the exact same thickness through the bends. The other option is to design within the sheet metal module of the CAD software. As long as the parts are designed correctly they should flatten out pretty easily. We then start a new drawing file with no format and then drop a view of the flat (whichever side has the least amount of countersinks) and ensure the scale is set 1/1. We then save the file as a .dxf. The dxf then gets used to cut the parts. I'm not familiar with fusion 360 at all, we use Creo at work, but I wouldn't be surprised if the processes are similar.

If your parts only have one bend then you could figure out your bend deduction or bend allowance and then design around it while never having a bent model. Once you get 3-4 bends in a part this is no longer feasible.
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-PETE MALONE

SR-34
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Recoil Ready
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  #3  
Old 08-20-2018, 09:16 AM
Jim_in_PA Jim_in_PA is offline
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Gary...welcome to the party! Very nice choice for your new CNC machine. :)

On the gantry lift...I'm already having a "small" amount of buyer's remorse for not getting that small and relatively inexpensive option because I have a number of things that the little bit of extra clearance would be comforting. The option doesn't provide any additional Z axis travel, but it does make things a little less cramped, IMHO. If you have the funds, there's no harm in adding it now and little, if any, downside to getting the option that I can think of.

Effecting DC control should be doable, based on things I've learned from Gary Campbell. Keying to spindle off-on and using low voltage to control a contactor would be the way to go. (My cyclone is already controlled by a contactor, but using 120v on the control side)
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Retired from full time work in the telecom industry 9/2017
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Old 08-20-2018, 09:56 AM
DVE2000 DVE2000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinKnocker View Post
the material has to maintain the exact same thickness through the bends
Thanks Pete, that at least explains why I couldn't flatten it. I'd just drilled a hole, made a thin cut, and Fusion couldn't find a stationary face to use. I'd have to get an offset of the profile instead of a circle for the cut.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg test_leg.jpg (22.7 KB, 24 views)
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2018 Stinger II SR-44, 1.7kW Spindle, Performance Premium, Recoil, Gantry Lift, Cyclone
Fusion 360
Aspire
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Old 08-20-2018, 09:59 AM
DVE2000 DVE2000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_in_PA View Post
Very nice choice for your new CNC machine. :)
LOL. Thanks Jim :D

The X3 would have been a great option too, but seeing I started out looking at a Shark HD4...
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2018 Stinger II SR-44, 1.7kW Spindle, Performance Premium, Recoil, Gantry Lift, Cyclone
Fusion 360
Aspire
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Old 08-20-2018, 10:27 AM
Ger21 Ger21 is offline
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Quote:
I'm fairly convinced that Fusion can't be used to create anything for the recoil lathe. It only wants to generate tradition lathe turning. Does anyone know differently?

I haven't used it, but there are a lot of YouTube videos on wrapped toolpaths in Fusion.

You can also do indexed 4th axis.
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JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints

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Old 08-20-2018, 10:42 AM
DVE2000 DVE2000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ger21 View Post
I haven't used it, but there are a lot of YouTube videos on wrapped toolpaths in Fusion.

You can also do indexed 4th axis.
THANK YOU! I feel dumb. I was only ever looking at lathe stuff. It should be simple.
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2018 Stinger II SR-44, 1.7kW Spindle, Performance Premium, Recoil, Gantry Lift, Cyclone
Fusion 360
Aspire
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  #8  
Old 08-20-2018, 10:46 AM
mike.davison mike.davison is offline
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Location: Bolton, Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVE2000 View Post
Hi Camheads,
I'm wondering if I should just shell out the additional $150 for the 2" gantry lift? The bit's moment is increased when the gantry is further away from the pivot point on the carriage, so I'm wondering if any play is introduced with the lift option? Any chattering added?

I saw the cool thread on adding the ability to use G-code to start and stop a dust collector: http://www.camheads.org/showthread.php?t=2193.
Hey Gary, welcome!

On the additional gantry height, it would depend on the type of work you do. If you plan to work with thicker parts the additional clearance would be useful. If you plan to work with sheet goods it would not be useful. My focus is furniture parts and the extra gantry height would have been a very good feature. Next machine....

Controlling dust collection with G code is great. Bonus, the Stinger II has 2 unused relays that can be used for your purposes. I did it this way:http://www.camheads.org/showthread.php?t=7513, with a lot of guidance from Gary Campbell. Works wonderfully.
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Mike Davison
Stinger II 4x4, Recoil, spindle, FTC, Aspire, Sketchup
http://www.DavisonWoodworks.com/
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  #9  
Old 08-20-2018, 11:17 AM
DVE2000 DVE2000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike.davison View Post
Hey Gary, welcome!

On the additional gantry height, it would depend on the type of work you do. If you plan to work with thicker parts the additional clearance would be useful. If you plan to work with sheet goods it would not be useful. My focus is furniture parts and the extra gantry height would have been a very good feature. Next machine....

Controlling dust collection with G code is great. Bonus, the Stinger II has 2 unused relays that can be used for your purposes. I did it this way:http://www.camheads.org/showthread.php?t=7513, with a lot of guidance from Gary Campbell. Works wonderfully.
Thanks, Mike!

I've never worked with really thick parts - 2" to 3" is probably the most I've ever done. I'm trying to think of a scenario where I would need more than 5", and I can't really think of any. I'm also wondering if I could just use the additional height provided on the lathe if I had a long, thick part that wasn't more than, say, 8 inches wide.... I'm really worried about the rigidity with the extension. What kinds of furniture parts have you had that needed more than 6"?

That schematic is exactly what I needed. I'll just use one channel for on and the other for off. Automatic dust collection is good to go!

If it turns out that I need the extra channel for something else in the future, I could always design something external that changes a relay's on/off to two separate pulses for the switches.
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2018 Stinger II SR-44, 1.7kW Spindle, Performance Premium, Recoil, Gantry Lift, Cyclone
Fusion 360
Aspire
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  #10  
Old 08-20-2018, 12:19 PM
mike.davison mike.davison is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVE2000 View Post
Thanks, Mike!

I've never worked with really thick parts - 2" to 3" is probably the most I've ever done. I'm trying to think of a scenario where I would need more than 5", and I can't really think of any. I'm also wondering if I could just use the additional height provided on the lathe if I had a long, thick part that wasn't more than, say, 8 inches wide.... I'm really worried about the rigidity with the extension. What kinds of furniture parts have you had that needed more than 6"?
Remember, a 3" thick part needs a 3"+ long cutter. Add some clearance above the part and you've hit more than 6". I the spindle up on the mount to avoid much of this issue.

Where I've bumped into this issue if when trying to work with a slightly curved table leg that needed to sit in jig. The jig, consumes some height, the curve consumes some height, the longer bit consumes some height... All this can be worked around -- build jigs that do not increase part height, raise the spindle in the mount, redesign some parts -- but a bit more gantry height would avoid some of this. If there's a second machine in my future, it will have more gantry clearance.

I can't speak to how much more distortion one gets with the 2" gantry lift. My suspicion is that normal material movement is larger than the additional error if one is working with wood. Perhaps someone has measured/compared the results and can speak to this issue with some precision.
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