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Old 10-09-2019, 07:27 PM
Gregory Paolini Gregory Paolini is offline
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Default Parts started shifting on my 5x8 Cobra - Blackbox Hurricane

Hello All!

I've got a 5'x8' cobra with a hurricane vac. Everything is single phase. Been running this machine pretty regularly since late April. 99% of the time I'm cutting cabinet parts of 3/4" plywood with it, using a 3/8" compression bit, and onion skinning.
We've always had concerns regarding small parts moving, so when we have some small pieces, we turn on the secondary vacs of the hurricane.

Well, after 15 sheets of a 25 sheet run today, we had a medium size piece move. I saw some groves in the spoil board, so we resurfaced it, and continued to run. Then, we had an entire sheet move. Not sure why exactly, but needless to say, we have a 4x8 piece of firewood.... Perhaps the piece was warped...

Anyway, I continued on with a fresh spoilboard and piece of 3/4 ply, and again I had medium size pieces moving on me. So I ran some tests using the vac guage on the hurricane

Hurricane Specs:9.5-10"
My Cobra/Hurricane
All zones closed: 9" on the gage at 2700' above sea level
All zones open, and nothing on the spoil board: 6.5"-7"
Zones 1-4 open, and a 4x8' of ply on the spoilboard: 8.25"

From the above, I would either have a major restriction upstream, or a non porus spoilboard. My spoilboard was replaced a month ago, and has been working as expected until today. I removed my air filter to make sure it isn't tricking me into thinking I have a bad spoilboard, and removing the filter had zero impact on the readings.

So, I'm scratching my head a bit... I'd like to see a lower reading with all the zones open and nothing on the spoilboard… Have I just been lucky that things have been holding on this MDF spoilboard up til now?

Honestly, I'm hoping one of you share something with me that makes me do a face palm.....
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  #2  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:22 PM
guitarwes guitarwes is offline
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Could it be that the pieces that moved didn't get the same onion skin toolpath as the others? Like they were cut out in a single pass?
That's pretty good vacuum and should be holding well IF the plywood wasn't warp all to heck and not touching the spoilboard. Are you masking off the area of the spoilboard that isn't covered by plywood? I don't know how the zones are setup on a 5X8.
After you surfaced the spoilboard and when the entire sheet moved, were all the valves for the vacuum open?
Did you surface BOTH sides of the new spoilboard when you replaced it?

Just throwing stuff out.
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  #3  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:59 PM
Gregory Paolini Gregory Paolini is offline
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All great questions that someone troubleshooting shouldn’t overlook

Could it be that the pieces that moved didn't get the same onion skin toolpath as the others? Like they were cut out in a single pass?
*no. After things started moving, we were watching like a hawk. The last piece to move was a 4”x35” cabinet stretcher, which moved during the 2nd cut which removes the onion skin


That's pretty good vacuum and should be holding well IF the plywood wasn't warp all to heck and not touching the spoilboard. Are you masking off the area of the spoilboard that isn't covered by plywood? I don't know how the zones are setup on a 5X8.
*the plywood on the first piece was likely warped, however subsequent pieces were flat. max vacuum is decent, but the open/flow pressure seems high to me. We usually keep zone 5 closed, and that zone makes up the x49 thru x60 width, and y0 thru y97 height. Zones 1-4 are located under a sheet of standard plywood. We’ve never covered zone 5 with anything. It doesn’t seem to impact the other zones.

After you surfaced the spoilboard and when the entire sheet moved, were all the valves for the vacuum open?
*zones 1-4 were open, and zone 5 was closed

Did you surface BOTH sides of the new spoilboard when you replaced it?
*absolutley, yes. We replaced the spoil board a month ago, and have cut well over 100 plus sheets of plywood since then.

*i really am hoping for a face palm moment!
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Old 10-09-2019, 09:31 PM
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Gary Campbell Gary Campbell is offline
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Have you followed the steps shown here to diagnose?

https://www.camheads.org/showthread.php?t=8558
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Old 10-10-2019, 07:30 AM
Gregory Paolini Gregory Paolini is offline
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Gary,

Thanks for posting that diagnostic sheet. I did follow your instructions, except for making an adjusting for altitude, which in my case is 2700' MSL, or roughly 10% reduction.

Per your sheet, here are my results:
Hurricane Factory Specs:9.5-10"
My Cobra/Hurricane
All zones closed: 9" on the gage at 2700' above sea level
All zones open, and nothing on the spoil board: 6.5"-7"
Zones 1-4 open, and a 4x8' of ply on the spoilboard: 8.25"

My Max vacuum seems great, especially when factoring in altitude, but my open/flow reading seems too high to me, with too small of a delta between max flow through the bleeder, and max vac of a sealed system. (in full disclosure, I never tested the machine when it was working well, so I don't have a good baseline for my own set up).
This still has me looking at not having enough flow through the bleeder board.. The only thing that keeps me scratching my head is "Why has it worked up to now?"

I'm hoping somebody slaps me with an insight that's so obvious that I kick myself, or just confirms I've been lucky up to this point
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GPDWoodshop.com
Western North Carolina
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  #6  
Old 10-10-2019, 07:44 AM
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james mcgrew james mcgrew is offline
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Where are you gettting that SB,

LDF from a cabinet materials supplier works 99% of the time

MDF from Home depot Dark brown has too much binder, lighter yellowish works best.

HDF sometimes sold at HD as mdf and will not work worth a $hit

got any trash that found its way to the area in question ?
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  #7  
Old 10-10-2019, 05:42 PM
tmouse tmouse is offline
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What type of hose do you have could it be collapsing on the inside
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  #8  
Old 10-10-2019, 08:50 PM
Gregory Paolini Gregory Paolini is offline
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James - 5x8 spoilboad MDF from Wurth. I’m checking to see if they have a LDF. Horizon out of Greenville also delivers to us, so I’ll check with them as well

Tmouse - my plumbing is all rigid schedule 40 & 80 pvc
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Cobra 408 (with a 5x8 table); 10 ATC; hurricane
GPDWoodshop.com
Western North Carolina
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  #9  
Old 10-10-2019, 10:48 PM
The real JP The real JP is offline
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Are all of the motors on the Hurricane actually running?

I cut with all 4 motors on my 4x8 table and it just barely holds small parts. It's not really enough vac for production work.
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  #10  
Old 10-11-2019, 09:14 AM
BradyWatson BradyWatson is offline
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Program your cuts by zone. Turn on the active zone and off what isn't being used. Think about it...It's not so much the source of vacuum as how you manage what you have.
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