CAMheads CNC Router Forum By: CAMaster CNC

Go Back   CAMheads CNC Router Forum By: CAMaster CNC > New CNC Setup. > Vacuum, work holding, dust collection

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-02-2019, 02:14 PM
Krvnrch Krvnrch is offline
CAMaster Owner
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 19
Default Vacuum table set-up questions...

Hello all,

I am setting up the vacuum table on my Stinger SR44 for the first time. I used the file that Camaster sent me, with a few modifications by Joey, and used his shopping list for plumbing parts. Everything looks so great, but when I tried to place the drains in the through holes, they don't seat very well.

Here is a pic of the drain sitting over the hole...


As you can see, it does not fit down into the machined rings. It seems to me that it should, but I am new at this. Here is a pic of the rings...



I would think that the round plastic part of the drain should fit down into the ring. I would also think that the protruding sections 180 degrees apart from each other should fit into a cutout section of the plastic drain to assist with tightening the collar under the table. There are no matching cutouts on the plastic drain...



Do I need to cut out a bigger ring for the drain to fit down into without the protrusions or is everything actually ok? It would seem to me that there should be more air space directly over the drain...but again, this is all new to me...

Does anyone have any pics of the drains seated on the plenum and of the rings cut out of the plenum for reference?

Thanks folks,
Allan
__________________
Allan Lamonte
Allan Lamonte Custom Woodworking
Stinger II SR-44 Newbie

Last edited by Krvnrch; 07-02-2019 at 02:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-02-2019, 09:18 PM
drummerjg drummerjg is offline
CAMaster Owner
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Addison, PA
Posts: 902
Default

Allan, I have an SR24 , but I think the plumbing would be about the same. I did not use any drains...just the drain cover and the pvc pipe. Hopefully the attached pics show what I mean. It took me a while to figure out what
I really needed. I was way over thinking the drain part.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 0B17BEC0-5115-4A18-8507-6A92A23A5903.jpg (48.9 KB, 62 views)
File Type: jpg 6D9BD3BA-0487-458C-B433-B287FA0C7ECF.jpg (82.9 KB, 57 views)
__________________
Joe Garber
Retired Hobbyist
Stinger 1 SR24
FTC
Laser Pointer
HSD 1.7kw Spindle
Indexing Lathe
WinCNC, Aspire 9.5, PhotoCarve
Storm Vacuum
drummerjg@icloud.com


How to count to 10 in Windows:
1,2,3,95,NT,2000,XP,Vista,7,8,10
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-02-2019, 11:17 PM
kevin r kevin r is offline
CAMaster Tech
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Woodstock, Ga
Posts: 8
Default

if that is an I modified drain hole from us, you are using the wrong drain. We use a style very similar to this: https://www.supplyhouse.com/Sioux-Ch...EaAoqZEALw_wcB

Yours will work, but you will need to modify the existing holes to accept that style drain. Should be easy enough to do.

I also noticed you are missing a recess for the drains we use. The tabbed ring should actually be below the surface of the vacuum channel. Top of drain should be flush with bottom of vac grid when it is installed.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-03-2019, 06:58 AM
TimPa TimPa is offline
CAMaster Owner
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: nw pa
Posts: 196
Default

as you are working out your sizes, keep in mind that a near-perfect airtight seal is required between the plumbing and the distribution table - as the more leakage there is, the worsened vacuum table performance there will be.

caulking from underneath is usually required to fix leaks... unless someone else has used a better method???
__________________
Panther PT-404 (aluminum)
6 position ATC w/5hpHSD, Aspire 9.5/WinCNC, Recoil, Laser, Hurricane
near bottom of the learning curve!!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-03-2019, 03:22 PM
keithrhyde keithrhyde is offline
CAMaster Owner
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Winchester, Virginia
Posts: 312
Default Fwiw

I have an SR23 with phenolic vacuum table. and I had to completely redo the original installation of pvc due to excessive leaks. I got all the parts from the big box store and used clear silicone around the drains to seal. The two drains have to be perpendicular, level and parallel to each for a perfect seal. The difficulty is because the close elbow that you must use so the pvc pipe will clear the track mechanism under the bed.

I removed my phenolic vacuum top to make it easier to line everything up and mark for gluing. I think it is possible to put it altogether on the bench and then slide the top back on with the pvc pipe going through the bed in the rear first. I was alone and setting up a hoist to lift the top wasn't worth all the effort to me so I just assembled after I put the top back on the bed. The phenolic top is very heavy.

I recommend using Gary Campbell's method to check for leaks and maximum vacuum since much has to do with volume not just vacuum. I was a little shy of Gary's recommended numbers probably due to having the vacuum pump outside and a few elbows in the pvc run. I haven't had any issues hold parts down not even small ones as long as I cover up the rest of the spoilboard with scraps of wood. FWIW.
__________________
Keith Hyde, Winchester, VA
2016 Stinger 1, 1.7KW HF Spindle HSD
Performance Package Pro, Vac, lathe, Aspire 9
Former Marine and retired Seabee Master Chief.
Furniture is my hobby not my vocation.
hyde.consulting@comcast.net
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-03-2019, 06:45 PM
tmouse tmouse is offline
CAMhead Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 124
Default

Why do you need the strainer
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-03-2019, 09:52 PM
jmcs1 jmcs1 is offline
CAMhead Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 1
Default

Your using a shower drain, not a problem. You don't need the chrome piece. You need to remove the tabs in the recess so the drain will sit flat. Use the gasket on the bottom. Think if your doing plumbing, you don't want leaks. I would use PL Premium. It bonds to everything. Silicone has a habit of lifting/losing bond on the edges over time. Silicone used to mount your spoil board is ok, your going to change it. Your not going to change or check your vacuum system. Silicone WILL fail when used on MDF.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-04-2019, 03:32 PM
Krvnrch Krvnrch is offline
CAMaster Owner
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 19
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drummerjg View Post
Allan, I have an SR24 , but I think the plumbing would be about the same. I did not use any drains...just the drain cover and the pvc pipe. Hopefully the attached pics show what I mean. It took me a while to figure out what
I really needed. I was way over thinking the drain part.
Good info...not sure how you secured the drains in the holes...adhesive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin r View Post
if that is an I modified drain hole from us, you are using the wrong drain. We use a style very similar to this: https://www.supplyhouse.com/Sioux-Ch...EaAoqZEALw_wcB

Yours will work, but you will need to modify the existing holes to accept that style drain. Should be easy enough to do.

I also noticed you are missing a recess for the drains we use. The tabbed ring should actually be below the surface of the vacuum channel. Top of drain should be flush with bottom of vac grid when it is installed.
Looks like you work at Camaster!?! I will send you a PM if I can...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimPa View Post
as you are working out your sizes, keep in mind that a near-perfect airtight seal is required between the plumbing and the distribution table - as the more leakage there is, the worsened vacuum table performance there will be.

caulking from underneath is usually required to fix leaks... unless someone else has used a better method???
Good info...thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by keithrhyde View Post
I have an SR23 with phenolic vacuum table. and I had to completely redo the original installation of pvc due to excessive leaks. I got all the parts from the big box store and used clear silicone around the drains to seal. The two drains have to be perpendicular, level and parallel to each for a perfect seal. The difficulty is because the close elbow that you must use so the pvc pipe will clear the track mechanism under the bed.

I removed my phenolic vacuum top to make it easier to line everything up and mark for gluing. I think it is possible to put it altogether on the bench and then slide the top back on with the pvc pipe going through the bed in the rear first. I was alone and setting up a hoist to lift the top wasn't worth all the effort to me so I just assembled after I put the top back on the bed. The phenolic top is very heavy.

I recommend using Gary Campbell's method to check for leaks and maximum vacuum since much has to do with volume not just vacuum. I was a little shy of Gary's recommended numbers probably due to having the vacuum pump outside and a few elbows in the pvc run. I haven't had any issues hold parts down not even small ones as long as I cover up the rest of the spoilboard with scraps of wood. FWIW.
More great info! Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmouse View Post
Why do you need the strainer
I don't think I do...that is just the way the shower drains come, and I didn't want to start taking it apart until I figure out what I need...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcs1 View Post
Your using a shower drain, not a problem. You don't need the chrome piece. You need to remove the tabs in the recess so the drain will sit flat. Use the gasket on the bottom. Think if your doing plumbing, you don't want leaks. I would use PL Premium. It bonds to everything. Silicone has a habit of lifting/losing bond on the edges over time. Silicone used to mount your spoil board is ok, your going to change it. Your not going to change or check your vacuum system. Silicone WILL fail when used on MDF.
Loctite PL Premium sounds good! So you are saying I just need to cut the recess (without tabs) deep enough to flush the drain with the bottom of the grid surface without the grate, and install it with PL and the gasket below the plenum?
__________________
Allan Lamonte
Allan Lamonte Custom Woodworking
Stinger II SR-44 Newbie
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-04-2019, 05:11 PM
DVE2000 DVE2000 is offline
CAMaster Owner
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 338
Default

CAMaster leaves the strainer on for their factory installs. I really donít think it hurts the flow much, and if something big does somehow happen to go down, youíll probably blow an impeller. Or all of them. I had a motor come to pieces and there were aluminum shards everywhere in the exhaust port.
__________________
Gary
2018 Stinger II SR-44, 1.7kW Spindle, Performance Premium, Recoil, Gantry Lift, Cyclone
Fusion 360
Aspire
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-04-2019, 07:02 PM
drummerjg drummerjg is offline
CAMaster Owner
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Addison, PA
Posts: 902
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krvnrch View Post
Good info...not sure how you secured the drains in the holes...adhesive?
I used just the elbow, no drain. It fit quite snugly into the hole in the table. I then sealed the top and bottom of the hole with a sealant of some ilk...it escapes me now but I will try to get the name for you. So far all is good...plenty of hold down when I cover my unused area on the bleeder board. FWIW I use black plastic trash bags...they work awesome!
__________________
Joe Garber
Retired Hobbyist
Stinger 1 SR24
FTC
Laser Pointer
HSD 1.7kw Spindle
Indexing Lathe
WinCNC, Aspire 9.5, PhotoCarve
Storm Vacuum
drummerjg@icloud.com


How to count to 10 in Windows:
1,2,3,95,NT,2000,XP,Vista,7,8,10
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.