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  • Tramming the Spindle

    This is going to be a bit of a long post! For most cabinet type work, this level of tramming is not really necessary. But for two sided work, like stool legs, where you are cutting 2.5" off the table but your index holes are in the spoil board, it makes a HUGE difference to your finished product to be perfectly trammed (the two sided cuts will actually line up with each other!).

    I've been asked by many people how to tram the spindle, so here is a picture of the device I use. (this is a new device since I couldn't fine the bent 1/4" rod I normally use). It does not have to be perfect, or even straight. It just has to fit in your collet at one end, and extend out and bend down to the spoil board. The longer it extends out from the spindle, the more accurate you can be. But there is a point of diminishing returns - I find 10-12" is more than long enough.

    Just got a new CR 308 machine from Gary and one of the first things I did was place a spoil board and surface it so I could tram the spindle.

    Lower your spindle until the end of the tramming rod barely touches the spoil board and then spin it in a complete circle. It should barely touch the spoil board all the way around. In the picture, you can see that my spoil board surfacing bit left angled cuts, and my tramming rod was out 3/16" along the X axis and 1/16" along the Y axis.

    The next step is to figure out what needs to be adjusted. I like to tram along the Y axis first. I first checked the rails on the gantry to make sure that they were square to the spoil board - using a long machinist square set on the spoil board and touching both rails - they should both touch the square at the same time. There was a gap between the lower rail and the square when the top rail was touching the square, so I had to shim the between the lower bearing blocks and the plate so that the Z rails would be perpendicular to the spoil board. If the z rails aren't perpendicular, your bit will change position in the X or Y axis as it moves up and down, even if the spindle itself is perfectly orthogonal to the spoil board.

    Once I had that shimmed, I then checked my Z rails to be sure they were perpendicular in both directions. If they are off in the X direction, you will need to twist the plate that is mounted on the X rails (the plate I just shimmed).

    I was still off with my tramming rod, so now I had to adjust the angle of the spindle mount itself. To do this, I had to remove the spindle and ream out the holes in the mounting bracket so that I had a little play to twist the spindle in the bracket. This got me perfectly trammed in the X direction, and then I shimmed the spindle mount to get perfectly trammed in the Y direction.

    Once I was all trammed, I had to readjust all my tool changer positions in the SPOS.POS file, because I had moved the spindle enough to affect tool changes.

    Its smart to get your machine trammed and the gantry squared BEFORE putting any jigs or index holes in your spoil board, because their position will change relative to the home position once you make the necessary adjustments.
    Attached Files
    Russell Crawford
    Cobra 408 ATC with recoil
    Alberta, Canada
    www.cherryleaf-rustle.com

  • #id
    Thanks Russell for the explanation on this procedure. But I do have a question...

    I did a tram check (?) on mine and felt it was pretty close. Got a lot better surface cut when truing up the top surface of a project.

    But my question is: can we chase our tail on this?

    If I tram my machine on a surface board that may not be true, is it of any value? And if I try to true my surface board without my router being square, would that cause a problem?

    Am i overthinking this? It seems that I would need a trued surface board to set the router up true. But can I have a trued up surface board without a trammed router.

    It's making my head hurt...

    Thanks for any input and help.

    klw

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    • #id
      Thanks Russell; It's good to have this as a reference. I'd like to see pictures of your new machine.
      Charlie Hind
      Cobra 404 ATC with 12 tool positions & 4th Axis (2012-present)
      (2006-2012 - K2 CNC... sold in 2012 to buy the Cobra)
      WinCNC
      www.hindocarina.com
      http://facebook.com/hindocarina

      Comment


      • #id
        Yes, it could be a situation of "how far do you go"? Russell has helped me on this a few times and my problem is being anal and a bad case of ADHD. As soon as I get my spoil board surfaced I do the procedure then think how cllose did I get because I started with a spindle out of tram in the first place. I do the procedure again and find I can still make an adjustment.

        Should Camaster have these set before we get our machines? Then in a rough delivery and journey they shift anyway.

        Russell can you come to my house and do this for me. My wife is a great cook!!

        Tony
        Tony Wish
        Cobra 4x8
        Plasma
        Popiel Folding Fishing Rod

        Comment


        • #id
          The tramming procedure will work just fine if you surface your spoil board with a spindle that is not trammed.

          The reason is that the variations will be very localized. You can see in my first picture that each cut had a high side and a low side, but ALL the high points are the same height, so when you spin your tramming rod around it will only hit on the high spots. Since the high spots are all exactly the same height with respect to the gantry, it will work out perfectly.
          Russell Crawford
          Cobra 408 ATC with recoil
          Alberta, Canada
          www.cherryleaf-rustle.com

          Comment


          • #id
            Originally posted by de5 View Post
            Thanks Russell; It's good to have this as a reference. I'd like to see pictures of your new machine.
            I'll take some pictures this afternoon. After I got the machine, I built a rotary tool changer (Gary supplied me with a motor and some gears). Used 1" aluminum for the parts, and 5/8" phenolic to make the tool forks.
            Russell Crawford
            Cobra 408 ATC with recoil
            Alberta, Canada
            www.cherryleaf-rustle.com

            Comment


            • #id
              Love to see pick,, No deflection in the weight of the metal bar on tram tool ?
              James McGrew
              CAMaster ATC 508
              The principle of Measure twice cut once has not been replaced by a CNC

              www.mcgrewwoodwork.com

              https://www.facebook.com/pg/Mcgrew-W...=page_internal

              Camera 1 ATC Closeup !
              https://video.nest.com/live/esNTrZ

              fixed 4-27-2020

              Comment


              • #id
                The bar is very light Jim, but any deflection is the same when I spin it all around a full circle so it cancels itself out.
                Russell Crawford
                Cobra 408 ATC with recoil
                Alberta, Canada
                www.cherryleaf-rustle.com

                Comment


                • #id
                  Angle bar looks heavy on the bolt. I have the dual tram tool but mine has yet to be out to any visible way. Great tutorial..
                  James McGrew
                  CAMaster ATC 508
                  The principle of Measure twice cut once has not been replaced by a CNC

                  www.mcgrewwoodwork.com

                  https://www.facebook.com/pg/Mcgrew-W...=page_internal

                  Camera 1 ATC Closeup !
                  https://video.nest.com/live/esNTrZ

                  fixed 4-27-2020

                  Comment


                  • #id
                    Instead of surfacing the whole board before traming, I would surface a small area on a scrap MDF, where you will use to tram the CNC. After the CNC is tramed, then surface the whole board. This way, the whole board only need to be tram once.
                    Vincent Doan
                    Website: www.amazoncanvas.com
                    Hardware: Stinger I, 1K Spindle, Lathe
                    Software: Adobe Illustrator, ImagePaint, VCarve Pro, Sketchup

                    Comment


                    • #id
                      There's a reason that the clean spoilboard is the reference for tramming... ;)
                      ---
                      Jim Becker

                      SR-44 (2018), 1.7kw spindle, Performance Premium, USB, Keypad, T-Slot table (y-axis configuration), WinCNC, VCarve Pro upgraded to Aspire

                      Non CNC stuff...

                      SCM/Minimax
                      Festool "a good collection"
                      Stubby - lathe
                      Oneida V3000 DC
                      more...

                      Retired from full time work in the telecom industry 9/2017
                      Occasional commission work for others, but mostly for me...furniture/tack trunks/signage/guitars
                      Located Bucks County PA

                      Comment


                      • #id
                        Surface just the area you are using to tram is the same as surfacing the whole board before tram. So, there is no difference in the two, only less work and mess :-)
                        Vincent Doan
                        Website: www.amazoncanvas.com
                        Hardware: Stinger I, 1K Spindle, Lathe
                        Software: Adobe Illustrator, ImagePaint, VCarve Pro, Sketchup

                        Comment


                        • #id
                          It depends upon whether or not you're going to test in a static position or not to verify things are set well. Taking off ten thou off the spoilboard prior to the process to have a clean surface isn't a big deal and doing the same after tramming...which is something one hopefully will not have to re-do for a very long time...isn't that tedious. Many of us use Mick's spoilboard utility and already have a pre-configured file from it that we use frequently to clean the top. There are folks here that do this multiple times per day in production shops. The OP here has a large machine which can move pretty darn fast for cleaning, too.. (This thread also dates to 2015)
                          ---
                          Jim Becker

                          SR-44 (2018), 1.7kw spindle, Performance Premium, USB, Keypad, T-Slot table (y-axis configuration), WinCNC, VCarve Pro upgraded to Aspire

                          Non CNC stuff...

                          SCM/Minimax
                          Festool "a good collection"
                          Stubby - lathe
                          Oneida V3000 DC
                          more...

                          Retired from full time work in the telecom industry 9/2017
                          Occasional commission work for others, but mostly for me...furniture/tack trunks/signage/guitars
                          Located Bucks County PA

                          Comment

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